Which? Where?

[rock-on]

Hallo,

Can anyone please tell me why in sentence A ''which'' can be left out, while in sentence B ''where'' can't be left out and why?
A: That's the hotel where we made our reservation
B: That's the place which I was telling you about

Thank you!

[Duckduck (Contributor)]

Hallo,

Hi rock-on and welcome to the Forum!

Can anyone please tell me why in sentence B ''which'' can be left out, while in sentence A ''where'' can't be left out and why?
A: That's the hotel where we made our reservation
B: That's the place which I was telling you about

Thank you!

Got a little muddled there, ey?


1. Sentence B contains a relative clause.
"That's the hotel" being the main clause and the rest, introduced by the relative pronoun "which", is the relative clause.
Now we can leave out this relative pronoun if it is not the subject of the relative clause...(come again??? ). What I want to say is that in this relative clause you have a subject other than "which" viz. "we" (Who made the reservation? WE!) . And in these cases the relative pronoun is left out! We call this a contact clause.
http://www.englisch-hilfen.de/en/gramma ... clause.htm

2. In sentence A you use a question-word (wh-word) instead of a relative pronoun. You can do that in spoken language but "it isn't done" in formal writing. If you choose to use this variant, you can't leave out the question-word.
If you used a relative pronoun, though, you could leave that out!
That's the place about which I was telling you. ->
That's the place which I was telling you about.->
That's the place I was telling you about. ("I") is the subject of the relative clause, so the relative pronoun "which" is left out.

Was this of any help to you?

Duckduck

[rock-on]

Hallo Duckduck,

You mixed up sentences A and B a bit but I think I got the gist . Basically, both sentences contain relative clauses in which the subject is different from the main clause, which is why I can leave out a relative pronoun if one is used (sentence B), but not a question word (sentence A). Is that right? One quick further question though: what is the formal written version of sentence A? Is it: 'That's the hotel in which we made our reservation'?

Many thanks for your prompt reply!

[Duckduck (Contributor)]

Hallo Duckduck,

You mixed up sentences A and B a bit but I think I got the gist ... One quick further question though: what is the formal written version of sentence A? Is it: 'That's the hotel in which we made our reservation'?

Hi rock-on,

Sorry, but I think it's you who mixed up the sentences in the original post:

Can anyone please tell me why in sentence A ''which'' can be left out, while in sentence B ''where'' can't be left out and why?
A: That's the hotel where we made our reservation (Where is the "which" in this sentence???)
B: That's the place which I was telling you about (Where is the "where" in this sentence???)

Anyway, yes, that's quite right. The variant with the question-word is not as formal as the other one, so it is not used in formal speaking or writing.

The formal version of sentence A would be:
That is the hotel in/for/at which we made our reservation. Quite right! You can't leave out the pronoun here, because it is firmly connected with the preposition, btw, no short forms in formal writing!).

More informal would be the following sentence, in which the preposition is moved to the end of the phrase:
That's the hotel we made our reservation in/for/at. (-> contact clause) You would have to use the relative pronoun instead of the question-word. And since you have a different subject in the relative clause ("we") you just leave the pronoun out.

Cheers!
Duckduck

[rock-on]

Excellent - thanks very much!