I have a provocative question to you: How many percent is responsible for learning a language on the basis of talent, willingness to learn, or diligence?
Is there people who are absolut untalented for learning a language?
Do we learn rather with the eyes or with the ears?
How many words do we need on a average for a normal conversation? I mean a conversation in our everyday life.
What is your personal opinion to this issue?
To learn a language
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Alex2010
Re: To learn a language
There are four different types of learners.You can find your own type.andy55 hat geschrieben:Do we learn rather with the eyes or with the ears?
The following link represents the types and there is also a short test, which could help you to find your type.
http://www.pruefungsamt.de/pruefungsvor ... erntyp.php
No matter what type you are, you can utilize a combination of many different learning techniques.
That is my opinion.
best regards
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Duckduck (Contributor)
Re: To learn a language
Hi andy,andy55 hat geschrieben:I have a provocative question for you. To what degree are the following "ingredients" necessary and important when learning a language: talent, willingness to learn, or diligence?
Are there people who are absolutely untalented for learning a language?
Do we rather learn with the eyes or with the ears?
How many words do we need on an average for a normal conversation? I mean a conversation in our everyday life.
What is your personal opinion to this issue?
that's an interesting question, really. I think you have forgotten one or two "ingredients" (my word), though. You need time and I don't mean that you have to learn for 6 hours every day, but that you must be prepared to put a lot of effort and patience into it and that simply takes time. Learning a language so as to really speak and enjoy it isn't accomplished within a couple of months. And I feel that sometimes people don't realize this. They think they can take one or two courses in an evening school and yippi! That's not possible, of course. Just think how long it takes a little child to learn his or her mother tongue. And they learn "24/7", don't they?!
So, I would add patience, time, courage and a sense of humour to the points you mentioned.
And yes and no, there are people who are not particularly gifted when it comes to learning languages (you are not one of them, just in case you thought so
). I know a lady who really works very hard and spends a lot of time doing the exercises and stuff, but still her English is 
. In her case I think it may have something to do with her lack of musicality. It sounds funny but is true, nevertheless: people who are not good at music often have difficulties in pronouncing and speaking another language. It must have something to do with not hearing the sounds properly and thus not being able to repeat them. But hey, these people can have lots of other talents. Just look at me, I'm quite good when it comes to languages but an absolute failure at maths, chemistry, physics etc.Cheers
Duckduck
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Delfino
Re: To learn a language
I agree, it takes quite some time to learn a foreign language.
I took me more than 10 years to improve my skills up to my current level.
Although it might depend on your personal learning capabilities and requirements to the teaching style.
I know my remaining weak points (e.g. the formal knowledge of English grammar rules) and my strengths (e.g. listening skills)
but these are results of my passive learning method. I did not read many English books nor did take extra lessons.
But I've been watching an enormous number of English movies and TV series to immerse myself in an English speaking environment.
I think, we need to add money and opportunity to the list of "ingredients".
The willingness to use an opportunity is often called motivation.
Not everyone has the opportunity to meet at least one native speaker for mentoring on a regular basis.
Yoda said: "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice."
Money is needed to afford:
- freeing the daily schedule for the time used to focus on learning a language.
- to pay for the books, CDs, DVDs you use as learning material,
- to pay for the CD/DVD player to use audio learning material or to watch movies with foreign soundtracks (or going to the cinema),
- to travel to a place where you can access the internet (e.g. internet cafe), a good library,
or to pay for the computer you use to access the internet at home and the monthly fee for the internet provider,
- the private tutor during childhood,
- the course at an evening school later in life,
- to travel to the country where the language is spoken,
- etc. ...
she told me that most people use only 3000-5000 words of the about 50.000 words of the English language.
According to the following article you might need to know at least 1000 words for a normal conversation
or about 3000 words when using more specialised vocabulary.
How many words do we need to speak a language.
http://thelinguist.blogs.com/how_to_lea ... guage.html
Another interesting article on words:
How many words are there in English?
http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/drgw004.html
A study completed in July 2007 by Matthias Mehl of the University of Arizona shows that contrary to popular belief,
there is little difference in the number of words used by men and women in conversation.[1]
The study showed that on average each of the sexes uses about 16,000 words per day.
[1] http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... e-.html
Roxanne Khamsi, NewScientist.com news service 6 July 2007: Men – the other talkative .
I thank them for letting them me do this research. Retrieved 8 July 2007.
(Original article Are Women Really More Talkative Than Men? Mehl et al., Science 6 July 2007: 82 DOI: 10.1126/science.1139940.)
I took me more than 10 years to improve my skills up to my current level.
Although it might depend on your personal learning capabilities and requirements to the teaching style.
I know my remaining weak points (e.g. the formal knowledge of English grammar rules) and my strengths (e.g. listening skills)
but these are results of my passive learning method. I did not read many English books nor did take extra lessons.
But I've been watching an enormous number of English movies and TV series to immerse myself in an English speaking environment.
I think, we need to add money and opportunity to the list of "ingredients".
The willingness to use an opportunity is often called motivation.
Not everyone has the opportunity to meet at least one native speaker for mentoring on a regular basis.
Yoda said: "Always two there are, a master and an apprentice."
Money is needed to afford:
- freeing the daily schedule for the time used to focus on learning a language.
- to pay for the books, CDs, DVDs you use as learning material,
- to pay for the CD/DVD player to use audio learning material or to watch movies with foreign soundtracks (or going to the cinema),
- to travel to a place where you can access the internet (e.g. internet cafe), a good library,
or to pay for the computer you use to access the internet at home and the monthly fee for the internet provider,
- the private tutor during childhood,
- the course at an evening school later in life,
- to travel to the country where the language is spoken,
- etc. ...
I remember taking with a friend of mine (an Irish English teacher, author and actor) about this topic andandy55 hat geschrieben:How many words do we need on an average for a normal conversation?
I mean a conversation in our everyday life.
she told me that most people use only 3000-5000 words of the about 50.000 words of the English language.
According to the following article you might need to know at least 1000 words for a normal conversation
or about 3000 words when using more specialised vocabulary.
How many words do we need to speak a language.
http://thelinguist.blogs.com/how_to_lea ... guage.html
Another interesting article on words:
How many words are there in English?
http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/drgw004.html
A study completed in July 2007 by Matthias Mehl of the University of Arizona shows that contrary to popular belief,
there is little difference in the number of words used by men and women in conversation.[1]
The study showed that on average each of the sexes uses about 16,000 words per day.
[1] http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1 ... e-.html
Roxanne Khamsi, NewScientist.com news service 6 July 2007: Men – the other talkative .
I thank them for letting them me do this research. Retrieved 8 July 2007.
(Original article Are Women Really More Talkative Than Men? Mehl et al., Science 6 July 2007: 82 DOI: 10.1126/science.1139940.)
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andy55
Re: To learn a language
I agree with you in many of your points, for example the word patience. That is a big problem for me. I am absolut impatient, clumsy, and sometimes the strongest critics of my own work.
And about to the children who learn their native language. Your are absolutely right. They learn, practise and learn the language fluently with the time.
But, I don´t know if you agree with me, they are very young, and their brain is more receptive, than as an brain of a adult.
And Delfino you spoke about 50.000 words in regarding of the English language. There is a lot, is not it?
The German Language has certainly not so many words in his vocabulary, at least I think so.
And do your word "ingredients". I know this word only in context of cooking
And about to the children who learn their native language. Your are absolutely right. They learn, practise and learn the language fluently with the time.
But, I don´t know if you agree with me, they are very young, and their brain is more receptive, than as an brain of a adult.
And Delfino you spoke about 50.000 words in regarding of the English language. There is a lot, is not it?
The German Language has certainly not so many words in his vocabulary, at least I think so.
And do your word "ingredients". I know this word only in context of cooking
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Delfino
Re: To learn a language
andy55 hat geschrieben:I agree with you in many of your key points.
Patience, for example, is a big problem for me.
I am absolutly impatient, clumsy, and sometimes the strongest critic of my own work.
And about to the children who learn their native language.
Your are absolutely right.
They learn, practise and learn the language fluently with the time.
But, I don´t know if you agree with me, they are very young, and their brain is more receptive, than as an brain of a adult.
Delfino you spoke of about 50.000 words in regard to the English language.
There are a lot, are't there?
The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd edition (OED2) includes over 600,000 definitions, following a rather inclusive policy.
(Remember, some words have more than one definition.)
Number of words in English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_la ... in_English
The German language has certainly not so many words in its vocabulary, at least I don't think so.
The modern German scientific vocabulary has nine million words and word groups
(based on the analysis of 35 million sentences of a corpus in Leipzig, which as of July 2003 included 500 million words in total).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language#Vocabulary
I know the word "ingredients" only in the context of cooking.
It was used in quotation marks by Duckduck and me which signalises you
that we didn't used it for its literal meaning but rather figuratively speaking.
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Duckduck (Contributor)
Re: To learn a language
Beware! 
Beware!
Duckduck's hobby horse has been mentioned... Prepare for a little lecture...
Here goes:
English has a lot of words, oh yes. And there is a reason for it, too. It is the result of the way the language developed over the centuries. I don't want to bore you, so I will only give you a quick survey.
You have words stemming from Celtic times. Then loads of Germanic words, come with the Angles and the Saxons (take for example "horse" deriving from the name of one of the Germanic warriors called Horsa. His brother, by the way, was called Hengist. Can you think of a German word that resembles this one? They really did like their horses, you know!). But that wasn't the last influence: in came the Romans and stayed for a long time. And when they had gone ... say hello to William the Conqueror in 1066. And with him came all the words of French origin we still find in the English language. By the way, a nice way to illustrate the development of the language is in food (ingredients, you know?). Have you ever realized that the words for animals are of Germanic, sometimes Celtic origin but the words for the cooked meat are French or Latin?
swine -> pork (lat. porcus)
cow -> beef (fr. boef)
roe, deer, wild boar etc. -> venison (fr. venaison)
You can easily see who looked after the animals, hunted and killed them and who ate the meals, can't you? The "ruling classes" used their language and the "working classes" used theirs.
And that's why English is a language with loads and loads of synonyms, which means that there are many different words for one and the same thing or person, stemming from the different roots of the language. And let's not forget that England's imperialistic past didn't only bring wealth but also influences from many parts of the world - and new words to the language. And the process is still going on.....
Cheers
Duckduck
Beware! Duckduck's hobby horse has been mentioned... Prepare for a little lecture...
Here goes:
English has a lot of words, oh yes. And there is a reason for it, too. It is the result of the way the language developed over the centuries. I don't want to bore you, so I will only give you a quick survey.
You have words stemming from Celtic times. Then loads of Germanic words, come with the Angles and the Saxons (take for example "horse" deriving from the name of one of the Germanic warriors called Horsa. His brother, by the way, was called Hengist. Can you think of a German word that resembles this one? They really did like their horses, you know!). But that wasn't the last influence: in came the Romans and stayed for a long time. And when they had gone ... say hello to William the Conqueror in 1066. And with him came all the words of French origin we still find in the English language. By the way, a nice way to illustrate the development of the language is in food (ingredients, you know?). Have you ever realized that the words for animals are of Germanic, sometimes Celtic origin but the words for the cooked meat are French or Latin?
swine -> pork (lat. porcus)
cow -> beef (fr. boef)
roe, deer, wild boar etc. -> venison (fr. venaison)
You can easily see who looked after the animals, hunted and killed them and who ate the meals, can't you? The "ruling classes" used their language and the "working classes" used theirs.
And that's why English is a language with loads and loads of synonyms, which means that there are many different words for one and the same thing or person, stemming from the different roots of the language. And let's not forget that England's imperialistic past didn't only bring wealth but also influences from many parts of the world - and new words to the language. And the process is still going on.....
Cheers
Duckduck
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andy55
Re: To learn a language
You are absolut right with your summary in relating to the influence of the different cultures, it is really interesting.
We learnt it a few weeks ago.
And Duckduck is a walking dictionary.
We learnt it a few weeks ago.
And Duckduck is a walking dictionary.